Exclusive Interview with Rahul Gandhi: ‘Tribals are the original owners of the country’

Rahul Gandhi calls Tribals the original owners but what does he think of the struggles of tribals in Chhattisgarh and why is he averse to the term "Vanvasi" as used by RSS-BJP?

Editor-in-Chief of The Mooknayak Meena Kotwal caught up with Former Congress President Rahul Gandhi to get answers to all such questions related to Tribals, Dalits, Muslims and women. Read the Excerpts…

Meena: What is Bharat Jodo Yatra according to you and what will happen through this Yatra?

Rahul: What is the objective of the Bharat Jodo Yatra?

Meena: Yes

Rahul: The structure of India, …. the institutional structure the root of which is our constitution. And from where the other institutions originate like judiciary originates… the press originates ……..and all institutes originate and all these institutes originate, RSS and BJP have captured and in the present scenario, if someone wants to do the politics of opposition then the whole structure is closed and whatever the issue we want to raise In Parliament, Loksabha be it about Demonetisation…, GST or China or anything, they (the government) don't let us raise the issue they would silence you and put you off the mic. That's why we thought this is the only way we can reach out to the people by directly talking to them.

Meena: Today it is constitution day …

Rahul: Let me answer the question asked by you the fear which is being spread, the fear which is been spread amongst different people, dividing people, by intimidating and through policies and against the fear, violence we have started this, Yatra.

The other objective of Yatra… is to stand against unemployment, poverty, and inflation.

Meena: Today is also Constitution Day, do you think the constitution is still left?

Rahul: No. To keep the constitution alive, we have to protect it. On the one side constitution is protected by the common people, on the other side it is protected by the institutions. It is done by Vidhan Sabha and Loksabha. Our judiciary does it our press does it and all these institutions and all organisations are not doing the work now. Really …. The constitution is merely in name and It is not working effectively.

Meena: You are talking about the judiciary and we see there is no presence of Dalits or Adivasis.

Rahul: There is no presence of Dalit Adivasi and the Backwards …and also the minorities.

Meena: Yes, what is the reason for this lack of representation? Whereas the constitution aimed at giving equal opportunities to everyone?

Rahul: The reason is mainly because of political fights and in this political conflict they have the money and they have all the government machinery and the poor have only their voices ……. The voice of Dalits, Backwards and the Adivasi and if we organise them together, that is a very powerful thing. But that voice is unorganised.

Meena: How will that be organised?

Rahul: We are doing it …(pointing to the crow) this is one way to organise… to listen and talk to the people about one such thing where you get to understand, gather and organise people to listen to what is in their heart and to bring them to one Platform …… (pointing to the crowd) you don't see hatred in this group? Here no one is asking about your caste, religion, gender, young adolescent or elder, this space is open and everyone can come. This is what Hindustanis is about, and this is what we want.

Meena: But in our country, there is a conflict between Hindu and Hindutva, where can the Dalit Adivasi and the Muslim see in that?

Rahul: The real conflict in India is mainly about underprivileged people and two three four Industrialists, All the benefits are going to a few selected people. It's become one-sided. However, the real conflict is about money. How is the money of the people of India going to be distributed in the conflict?

There is space for all…..minorities …. Poors…. farmers…….. Backwards At present, all of it has become one-sided. Almost all of the benefits are reaching to selective people with power. The main conflict is about how to distribute money.

Meena: In the Judiciary there are the same type of people …if we talk about the collegium you know that the same type of people are reaching there (judiciary). What do you have to say about the collegium?

Rahul: I won't only talk about the judiciary only but I would like to talk about all the institutions including it press … be it judiciary…, then be it the army, be it the para-military and so on. RSS is appointing their people into all of these institutions. So, it is not only happening in the judiciary but in almost all of the institutions. It is an attack on the constitution because of all of these institutions and their framework have been created by the constitution. Judiciary doesn't belong to any political party or organisation. Bureaucracy does not belong to any single institution. It belongs to the people of India. The Press also does not belong to any person…… Modiji..Shahji….or the RSS it belongs to the people of the country. So, the structure to protect the people of the people has been held by one organisation.

However, the protection that should have been provided to the people is being taken away. And what you are seeing is a new ideology developing in the country. This is a journey, a Yatra, It is also an ideology. RSS has a different ideology. Who and which parties are fighting the political fight against BJP & RSS in the country you look at that.

Meena: But recently RSS has praised you, they have praised Bharat Jodo Yatra?

Rahul: That they have to do otherwise public is watching everyone will start asking questions but they (BJP&RSS) know Congress is fighting against them. This is our DNA and it is not a recent phenomenon. This DNA has been in us since the struggle of Independence.

Meena: Recently you said that Adivasi people are the owner of this country.

Rahul: The original owners

Meena: However, as we can see in Chhattisgarh, the struggle of Adivasis and they are struggling they don't have the kind of support.

Rahul: (Pointing towards Bhupesh Baghel) The Chief Minister of Chhattisgarh is here

(To Baghel) Baghelji, she is asking what is happening in Chhattisgarh with the tribals.

Baghel: Jal Jangal, Zameen (Water, forest, Land) is their right. They have got it naturally. They may have not claimed it. For example, our forefathers got it done in the plains UPA government brought Forest Rights Act and gave rights letters under that and we have given 4.50 lakh rights letters under that. And this happened for the first time that the arrangement for the purchase of forest produce was made. The Minor Forest Produce…. There is 65 Minor Forest Produce in Chhattisgarh 75% of Minor Forest Produce is in Chattisgarh and we are doing value addition of that and they (tribals) got employment because of that and their income is increasing. And if an industrialist is not able to set up industry on that land within five years we return it. Such an arrangement has been made not only in the country but in the whole world.

Meena: But the people are still fighting for Hasdeoaranya?

Baghel: HasdeoAranyais a small portion for which the talks are on…. Lemru ElephantReserve for which the BJP government had allocated 400sq kilometres… we increased it to 9,500 kilometres and out of which hardly 40 hectares …..8000 trees were chopped as the  Coal is needed by the Rajasthan. And in return, more trees have been planted. And there is full compliance with the Pollution Act. The Government of India's Forest Act and Pollution Act are being complied with. It has happened with the written consent of the villagers.

Rahul: (interrupting), See our record. what is the record…..records say that congress and Ambedkarji gave this constitution to …….. the foundation of it. If you look at the time of UPA then…. MNREGA was given ……. Land rights were given. PESA was given …..tribal law was given ………… so our record is clear and these are big works not small work and we had to fight a big fight for this work.

Our approach, if you listen to my speech I gave a few days ago Adivasis means who were primary inhabitants they are the first owner of India, Vanvasi which the BJP calls them, the people who stay in the jungle. The question is if they are forest-dwellers like what BJP is saying, it means you cannot go out of the Jungle. You cannot dream beyond the jungle. If you want to make your child a Pilot, lawyer or engineer, or doctor you are prohibited from doing so because you are basically a forest dweller. And their forests are being chopped so the ones you are calling forest-dweller, they won't be left with the forest and they will be rendered homeless. So, it is a difference in thinking.

Meena: And for saving those very forests ….

Rahul: Listen to me…….the difference in thoughts is that… we want that be it….  Dalits, be it ……..the Adivasis …backwards or general whomever it is their voices that should run the country and the money should be distributed amongst all and this should not happen that two or three people get the money and the rest keep looking we want to make this country rise along with them.

We want them to receive what their rights are and for everything to be equally distributed amongst everyone. This is the major difference between the BJP and congress. If you see our record from the beginning, we talked about the constitution, and see the green revolution, see …. white revolution. see Bank Nationalisation see liberalisation, … see privy purse and this isn't the record of 5 years but this is the record of the last 100 years when we fought the struggle for independence. This is the major difference between us both.

Meena: Yes, true…. but the people are still protesting there(HasdeoAranya) and they are being subjected to military charges….there is also your government …

Rahul: Yes, Like the chief minister has said we will look at it with sensitivity and with compassion will try to resolve it.

Meena: There is a lot of discussion about the Caste Census…..and when there was the congress government in 2011, don't you think the caste census should have taken place then?

Rahul: Jungle Bachao…

Meena……..Caste Census

Rahul: What are the other ways to protect it now? Democracy and the constitutions are the root and foundation of this country. If you see now, who protected the constitution most? See the record….

Meena: Yes, it is very clear that in your government there was a constitution…..

Rahul: Understand this……. we are a democratic party. BJP is a party that protects the caste system and they want that the caste doesn't go away in this country. And that their fight, our fight is to ensure that the money is distributed equally.

Meena: Don't you think this should have happened when your party was the ruling party in 2011?

Rahul: We were doing it.

Meena: Then why wasn't the data being disclosed at that time?

Rahul: Ok, you are talking about the census?

Meena: Yes

Rahul: Who started Census? Was it BJP? Was it us? It is the opinion and view of our party that the data of the census should be disclosed. We are in support of it. Back then, we discussed it. And in our opinion, it should be disclosed. But don't forget who conducted the census. Who gave the Reservation? Don't forget this.

Meena: In Hathras, they are being kept in security and in Bilkis Bano's case you see… ……the rapists are being garlanded and called cultured. Do you think they would get justice?

Rahul: Be it any woman, irrespective of religion and caste, if anything wrong has been done the culprits should be given strict punishment.

Full Interwive Video:

(Story Transcribe By Pratikshit Singh)